Curse

Bazompora · Jul 27, 2007, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyssa Rowan Tree

The English nation and the English only speakers of the world used to have a district in which they could speak that language. Now they do not.

Sorry, no, but that's not true at all.
You still can speak English in Common European Districts and you still will be understood by those who used to and still do know English.

warren_kn · Jul 27, 2007, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazompora

Sorry, no, but that's not true at all.
You still can speak English in Common European Districts and you still will be understood by those who used to and still do know English.

Nope. Good try but your still not understanding the problem. We know that we can speak English in the Common district, thanks for pointng out the obvious. However, theres does not exist a district where the ONLY language being spoken is English. There is a district where the only language spoken is French. Same for German, Italian, Spanish and now Russian and Polish.

If that does not matter , then I don't see why there is a problem speaking any language in any district, therefore making the names of the districts completely irrelevant.

I think this is the point where someone points out that English is the "common" language for Europe. Again this is irrelevant. No matter where you are form in Europe, if you want to use English then by all means use the English district. However, seeing several different languages being spammed does not help in communicating, which I believe was the original intent of splitting the districts.

As to your earlier post about my comment "reverted back to English". Gaile said in her post that the name will be changed pretty soon. She could have meant changed to something like "Multi-Lingual district". I just hope the change isn't something so trivial.

Bazompora · Jul 27, 2007, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by warren_kn

theres does not exist a district where the ONLY language being spoken is English.

Does it makes your eyes bleed if you occasionally see people type in another language? I live in a city where people speak several languages publically. I fail to see what's so bad about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by warren_kn

There is a district where the only language spoken is French. Same for German, Italian, Spanish and now Russian and Polish.

So, this is a jealousy thing (i.e. "They have it, so we should too")?

Quote:

Originally Posted by warren_kn

No matter where you are form in Europe, if you want to use English then by all means use the English district.

What if one want to use English and his/her non-English native language?

Quote:

Originally Posted by warren_kn

As to your earlier post about my comment "reverted back to English". Gaile said in her post that the name will be changed pretty soon. She could have meant changed to something like "Multi-Lingual district". I just hope the change isn't something so trivial.

Gaile Gray said that in reply to those who say "common" sounds insulting, so it's very likely it's going to be just that "trivial".
I allready suspected your comment to be wishfull thinking of your part.

By what logic do you find it defendable that European players should be pressured into speaking a non-native language?
Nobody ever forced you to speak another language, nor ever will; you allready complain about seeing something in another language, but you do find it acceptable for others to be pressured into speaking your language.

Voltar · Jul 27, 2007, 02:33 AM // 02:33

yeah, i perceive that as a big old middle finger at great britain. maybe if they combined all "english speaking countries" into a "common" district it would be less lame...even then it would kinda feel like a disrespectful slant at non-english speaking countries...are they "uncommon"?

regardless, lame move by anet.

Jarus · Jul 27, 2007, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Of the groups upset about this change, I see two groups:

1. People who thought of the 'English' districts as referring to their country. This one's a national pride thing.

2. People who would rather not have to see another language spoken in what they perceive as their 'own' district. I think these people have been complaining about this even before this change was made.

IMO, if ANET puts back English districts while retaining Common... everyone will just move back into English, and Common will be empty.

Personally, I don't care at all how they changed English to Common. If anyone ever spoke non-English in the English districts, I didn't give a toss. Why should I? They weren't speaking to me. They didn't mess my playing experience. If anything, I found it cool to be reminded how incredibly diverse human culture is.

Human District-1
Human District-2

eightyfour-onesevenfive · Jul 27, 2007, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by warren_kn

We know that we can speak English in the Common district, thanks for pointng out the obvious. However, theres does not exist a district where the ONLY language being spoken is English.

Well, from that point of view ther never was such a district. (That, by the way, is exactly what I've been repeating for about a week now). There may have been a disctict that was called "english", but it was not an "english only" district, as all the Dutch, Serbian, Greek, Polish, Scandinavian etc... people were there, too. Thus the name "english" was an illusion and there would be no ground on which to complain about the change now (you'd rather have to have complained from day 1 that there was no other district where to put all the foreigners that pollute your english district

).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarus

Personally, I don't care at all how they changed English to Common. If anyone ever spoke non-English in the English districts, I didn't give a toss. Why should I? They weren't speaking to me. They didn't mess my playing experience. If anything, I found it cool to be reminded how incredibly diverse human culture is.

Human District-1
Human District-2

Oh so true. The more I follow this discussion, the more I whish Anet never had created districts for different languages in the first place. Multilingual environments work like a charm in many other games. All they seem to do here, is creating discord.

phoenixar · Jul 27, 2007, 09:24 AM // 09:24

I'm sorry but this isn't just petty whining.

All the major languages in Europe have their own district apart from English.. fair enough add a "Common" district but give us back our English district please.. there's no reason to remove it ffs.

Gli · Jul 27, 2007, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Nothing was removed. They just named those districts appropriately, finally. They've always been common districts.

phoenixar · Jul 27, 2007, 11:40 AM // 11:40

The English district was removed.. there is no English district.

Renaming it with no mention of the word Englsh anywhere to be seen is removing the district.

Tijger · Jul 27, 2007, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoenixar

The English district was removed.. there is no English district.

Renaming it with no mention of the word Englsh anywhere to be seen is removing the district.

That's semantics and is typical of this whole thread, really. Semantics, false premisses (like that "English" is somehow connected to "english nation") and jingoism rule.

My stance is two-fold, one; its simply reflecting the fact that there are more players (as there always have been btw) from other locations then "English" and that "english" has always been the common language, second is "what the hell is the big deal anyway, my country has made up a large part of the GW community for years and we've never had our own districts and we never needed them"

Jarus · Jul 27, 2007, 12:10 PM // 12:10

My theory is that the major instigator for all this dissatisfaction is the fact that the British don't have their own district anymore, whereas the French and the Germans still do. If they removed the French District and replaced with the Common District--because everyone spoke French and everyone was there--I'd expect the French to be in an uproar as well.

It's not nice to be disenfranchised. True, when people from other countries would speak their language on the English district, there would be some who complained -- but that's to be expected, because there are bigots from every nation in the world. The majority of British players happily tolerated these few 'foreigners' though, because they are, as a whole, quite a tolerant people.

However, to FORCE them to become tolerant to other people by taking away their what they subconsciously thought of as their 'National' identity is another thing entirely.

For an extreme analogy, it's akin to being invaded by a foreign country and being made to play nice to all the visiting civilian invaders. These civilians may be wonderful people, but they will still be seen as 'the invaders who took away what we were'.

.........

As for those people who hate this change simply because they don't want 'foreigners' in their own district -- like I said earlier, there are bigots in every nation.

Eroth · Jul 27, 2007, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoenixar

Didn't really understand what you're talking about at all tbh..

They're not putting the "Euro" countries together.. in fact they just added 2 more districts for Polish and Russian.. all the other districts (French, German, Spanish etc) still exist except English has been renamed Common.

I'm starting to get annoyed by this kind of thing.. they don't seem to care that we might be offended.. English is from England.. it's not Europe's common tongue.. there's only the UK and Ireland which have English as their official language. I'm starting to think Americans think France, Germany, and Spain speak their own languages and everyone else speaks "English" now renamed "Common"..

Anyway I'm rambling so I'll stop now. Would be nice if they could give a reason for doing this.

Okay, when I read previous posts they made it seem like Anet Killed all the other servers and smashed them together and Common was the result. SO basically this boils down to, you ppl not liking your district to be called 'common'...*sigh* I don't get how it's that effecting. If it's that bad just hop on into the American districts and play.

warren_kn · Jul 27, 2007, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazompora

Does it makes your eyes bleed if you occasionally see people type in another language? I live in a city where people speak several languages publically. I fail to see what's so bad about it.

So, this is a jealousy thing (i.e. "They have it, so we should too")?

What if one want to use English and his/her non-English native language?

Gaile Gray said that in reply to those who say "common" sounds insulting, so it's very likely it's going to be just that "trivial".
I allready suspected your comment to be wishfull thinking of your part.

By what logic do you find it defendable that European players should be pressured into speaking a non-native language?
Nobody ever forced you to speak another language, nor ever will; you allready complain about seeing something in another language, but you do find it acceptable for others to be pressured into speaking your language.

Taking your points one at a time:

No it doesn't make my eyes bleed. It does however make communicating in a single language difficult. I live in a city where several DOZEN languages are spoken publically. I don't have a problem with it. However it was a ridiculous analogy.

Jealousy has nothing to do with it. Ease of use does. PLease try and be constructive in your comments.

It was wishful thinking, however they have addressed the concerns of those who thought "Common" was insulting so we are already a step forward.

I don't think that at all. Again your not reading all of my points. I want English AND Common districts, I've already said that several times in this and other threads. Either that, or have no language specific districts at all. OR, have a district for every single language spoken in Europe.

@ 84175 - Please refer to my earlier post where I said that English AND Common districts should have been there from the start. I believe ANet lumped everyone in the English district assuming that they all spoke English. This has proven not to be the case. And like I said above, I don't mind there being lots of multi-lingual districts.

@ Melkorium and Gli - I'll QFT Phoenixar's replies.

Lyssa Rowan Tree · Jul 27, 2007, 12:49 PM // 12:49

What people conveniently skip whenever they say this change makes no difference is this fact (which I have stated 2 times already):

Naming it Common has given the go ahead for people who previously spoke English in this district out of courtesy and because it was labelled English to speak whatever they like. All attempts at speaking any kind of universally understood language have been dumped. As a result the Common district is now a chaotic jumble of 10 languages at once.

It is already much worse in the Common districts than it was when they were called English. It is not occasional chat in other languages anymore. I went to Lions Arch yesterday and could not understand a word for 10 minutes until I left.

I have played dozens of MMORPGS and there is always an area for European players where English is the preferred / accepted language.

With the vast number of English speakers and the better quality of gaming that comes when people speak a mutually understood language, it is insane for Guild wars to have no English language area.

I cant see how anyone can think its a good move to have an MMORPG with no English language area.

phoenixar · Jul 27, 2007, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyssa Rowan Tree

What people conveniently skip whenever they say this change makes no difference is this fact (which I have stated 2 times already):

Naming it Common has given the go ahead for people who previously spoke English in this district out of courtesy and because it was labelled English to speak whatever they like. All attempts at speaking any kind of universally understood language have been dumped. As a result the Common district is now a chaotic jumble of 10 languages at once.

It is already much worse in the Common districts than it was when they were called English. It is not occasional chat in other languages anymore. I went to Lions Arch yesterday and could not understand a word for 10 minutes until I left.

I have played dozens of MMORPGS and there is always an area for European players where English is the preferred / accepted language.

With the vast number of English speakers and the better quality of gaming that comes when people speak a mutually understood language, it is insane for Guild wars to have no English language area.

I cant see how anyone can think its a good move to have an MMORPG with no English language area.

Agree with everything said in your post.

I'm not even sure English is the "common" language being spoken in the district tbh.. I was in RA dis 1 for an hour earlier and most of the time English wasn't being spoken :/

Jarus · Jul 27, 2007, 01:06 PM // 13:06

The cascade of tradechat going on in Kamadan Common District-1 at the moment is all in English.

bamm bamm bamm · Jul 27, 2007, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by warren_kn

ANet probably assumed that all the other people spoke English, which was incorrect.

They assumed more continental players spoke English as their second language than any other, which is correct. Since it isn't feasible to have a district for every language but just the common ones, it makes sense to default to English. Of course you already know all of this being a reasonably intelligent person, so I have to wonder why you try to argue otherwise. The English district has always been a cultural commons, a place where the none-English can actually find enough people to build a group, with an increased chance of everyone sharing a common language (oh look, there's that word again!). Changing the name of the district has changed absolutely nothing. I believe they have said they will change it back, but I hope they don't just out of spite.

Lets put this into perspective. The actual numbers of non-English speakers isn't going to change because of a district name-change. If people have a district that can cater to their language, they will default there, if not they go to English. If they need more players they are still likely to go to English. None of this has changed. The ONLY thing that has changed is that a few people with a specific mindset have had their pride dented. That's it. This hasn't changed the use of the district, but more accurately labeled the current use of the district. In essence, people are literally complaining about a word being different. Epic.

Stalinfalcon · Jul 29, 2007, 01:08 AM // 01:08

My first experience in MMOs was FF11. Since the past 3+ years I have expanded my experiences with several other MMOs, both Asian and Western. The thing that strikes me is that I was so terribly mistaken about the Global nature of MMOs. FF11 is the only game I have played in which the entire world play together on all servers. FF11 manages to defeat the language barrier via an 'auto translate' function.

What's my point? I seem to never get over my surprise and shock when every new MMO I try out is, yet again and invariably, segregated into Geographical/Linguistic play-regions (be it IP restrictions on game-server access, or in this case, language-specific channels which seemingly include IP identifiers as to the client's locale in order to access -- i.e. I am running a client in NA, I have never seen these 'French' etc. channels as on option for me to join).

I am apalled at the xenophobia and Linguistic Primacy displayed in this thread.

This thread is a massive phail, and, it would seem, Guild Wars as well.

Well then, I have some Dutch friends and a Russian LS to hang out with, as well as some cool Japanese people I've met over the years, back 'home' in FF11. Have fun in your Bigot Wars universe, folks, I for one am happily uninstalling this game for it is frequented by a sad, sad lot.

Aera · Jul 29, 2007, 01:38 AM // 01:38

I still think it's funny how the Polish and the Russians got a district, but the Dutch didn't.

Lol.

Sleeper Service · Jul 29, 2007, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stalinfalcon

My first experience in MMOs was FF11. Since the past 3+ years I have expanded my experiences with several other MMOs, both Asian and Western. The thing that strikes me is that I was so terribly mistaken about the Global nature of MMOs. FF11 is the only game I have played in which the entire world play together on all servers. FF11 manages to defeat the language barrier via an 'auto translate' function.

What's my point? I seem to never get over my surprise and shock when every new MMO I try out is, yet again and invariably, segregated into Geographical/Linguistic play-regions (be it IP restrictions on game-server access, or in this case, language-specific channels which seemingly include IP identifiers as to the client's locale in order to access -- i.e. I am running a client in NA, I have never seen these 'French' etc. channels as on option for me to join).

I am apalled at the xenophobia and Linguistic Primacy displayed in this thread.

This thread is a massive phail, and, it would seem, Guild Wars as well.

Well then, I have some Dutch friends and a Russian LS to hang out with, as well as some cool Japanese people I've met over the years, back 'home' in FF11. Have fun in your Bigot Wars universe, folks, I for one am happily uninstalling this game for it is frequented by a sad, sad lot.

not everyone is in that boat. posts which point by point refute that particular ΄logic΄ have been made, screenshot evidence has also been posted.